ReMix:Sonic & Knuckles "Lover Reef" 2:55

On 11/24/2023 at 10:25 PM, KougarLOB said:

Does anyone have a copy of the instrumental they can share? My saved copy was corrupted in a hard drive crash. Link earlier in the thread doesn't work anymore. Thanks.

Your best bet is probably to ask @zircon

Or ask around on Discord; I'm sure somebody has it

Does anyone have a copy of the instrumental they can share? My saved copy was corrupted in a hard drive crash. Link earlier in the thread doesn't work anymore. Thanks.

Oh, forgot to say:

On 1/20/2016 at 8:06 AM, dronebone said:

The instrumentation is nice and Taucer's guitar work is beyond excellent,

Much appreciated. I think my timing was noticeable off-rhythm at a few points, but I'm rather proud of the lead solo nonetheless. One thing I do want to point out: the plucked instrument that comes in on the left side at 1:44 is not me; that's Andy's work, done with a samples.

15 hours ago, Geoffrey Taucer said:

It is entirely possible that my perception of this remix is biased by the fact that I consider that jam session to be one of my most treasured memories,

I'd say that's a definite

16 hours ago, timaeus222 said:

it's not "phoned-in at best" or even "cringe-inducing". At worst I'd say it's occasionally awkward

Clearly we have different standards for lyrical content.

2 hours ago, djpretzel said:

Music isn't always about refining things to sonic perfection.... see The Velvet Underground.... or the entire genre of punk, for that matter

Sometimes it's more "of the moment"... as was the case here, imo.

I think certain types of arrangements just tend not to even HAPPEN at all when everyone involved is thinking about pristine perfection or whether adding/removing a given element will make a song more appealing to a wider audience... it's not about saying you couldn't have made improvements at the time if you knew then what you know now, if I'm getting @Geoffrey Taucer right... it's more about some of those types of tweaks that type of finesse ruining the vibe that birthed the arrangement in the first place.

More or less.

Dronebone, I totally get what you're saying in that it could be improved. The production could have been better. The four live performances could have been better. If the five of us were to get together and make a remix now, we could probably do something that sounds much cleaner, much more professional.

But here's how I see it: listening to music doesn't always mean listening to pristine studio recordings; sometimes it means listening to your buddy's band rock out in his garage. Do they sound as pristine as what you hear on the radio? No. But does that at all detract from the fun? Not at all.

This wasn't "let's sit down and make the best damn remix ever" sort of thing; it was more like "hey, we got five remixers here in Andy's basement, so let's throw a track together." It was a jam session between five buddies.
It is entirely possible that my perception of this remix is biased by the fact that I consider that jam session to be one of my most treasured memories, but when I listen to this track, I wouldn't change a single thing. Not one waver of Jill's voice, not one aspect of Andy's production, not Mike's cheesy lyrics, not Steve's 3AM rapping, not my off-rhythm guitar playing, not one single thing would I change.

If I were in Taucer's shoes, I wouldn't want to change much either; there are five collaborators, so y'know, it might be best to just go for as good as you can manage without pulling some of them in for more and more fixes.

That aside, I actually haven't heard this since I heard zircon's Phasma Elementum, which was like, 3+ years ago (when I heard it, not when it was released ), so let's see.

Yep, Jill is still killin' it with her tone, and she only got better in the later years. Shonen Samurai makes it sound somewhat parody-like, in a good way. Almost talk-like, but not like he wasn't motivated, and not so flat that it felt unenthusiastic. A bit more like he maybe didn't understand the message of the song but wanted to sing it as well as he could anyway. Sure, I can see sometimes the lyrics are trying to fit into a large number of notes (yet a short time span), but it's not "phoned-in at best" or even "cringe-inducing". At worst I'd say it's occasionally awkward, but clearly not so bad that they might as well not be there...

As it stands, it's right on the edge of the typical production standards in 2006 IMO. Maybe it wouldn't pass today, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it should have been further revised before final submission in 2006. Still holds up well today, and well worth listening to.

10 hours ago, dronebone said:

I guess I just don't understand the mindset of "it's not up to my standards, but given the chance I wouldn't improve it".

Music isn't always about refining things to sonic perfection.... see The Velvet Underground.... or the entire genre of punk, for that matter

Sometimes it's more "of the moment"... as was the case here, imo.

I think certain types of arrangements just tend not to even HAPPEN at all when everyone involved is thinking about pristine perfection or whether adding/removing a given element will make a song more appealing to a wider audience... it's not about saying you couldn't have made improvements at the time if you knew then what you know now, if I'm getting @Geoffrey Taucer right... it's more about some of those types of tweaks that type of finesse ruining the vibe that birthed the arrangement in the first place.

I guess I just don't understand the mindset of "it's not up to my standards, but given the chance I wouldn't improve it".

23 minutes ago, dronebone said:

It seems like what happened here is that a bunch of talented people got together to work on a song and threw a bunch of stuff in, but nobody had the producer-spine to cut parts and/or say what needed to be said for the song's sake, perhaps for fear of offending each other. A lot of wack stuff made it to the final mix. I can't imagine that if someone had been thinking in terms of what was best for the track (instead of what was best for everyone's egos) it would have turned out like this.

This assessment could not possibly be further from the truth.

As for the rest of the post, I'm sorry you didn't like the song. It is, looking back on it after ten years, probably not up to the standards that any of the five of us would shoot for if we were to make it today, but if I were to go back and redo the song all over, I wouldn't have wanted to do anything different.

This track is solidly mediocre. The instrumentation is nice and Taucer's guitar work is beyond excellent, but everything having to do with the vocals is just bad and drags the track back down to middle ground.

The lyrics are cheesy and the syllable placement is cringe-inducing. The lines don't flow rhythmically; it sounds like awkward chanting at best. I think "There's a fire lit so let's unthaw now" might be one of the absolute worst lyrical choices I've ever heard in my life, bar none, and the rest of the lyrical choices are in that same ballpark. I recognize it's tough to put good lyrics to a melody line that was never intended to be sung, but these lyrics needed a few more rewrites.

The vocal performances feel phoned-in at best. The female vocals are kind of okay, but the male vocals are flat and unenthusiastic, and the intonation on both is off just enough to be noticeable. The chanted section by the deeper male voice was a misguided aesthetic choice. That performance has zero flow and comes off like a 90's sketch comedy bit making fun of white people attempting to rap.

I have no idea why so many people in this thread heaped so much praise on this track. With more time spent reworking the lyrics and more takes recorded on the vocals (or perhaps cutting the singing entirely and fleshing out the instrumental), it might have been worth something, but as it stands, this is a swing and a miss.

It seems like what happened here is that a bunch of talented people got together to work on a song and threw a bunch of stuff in, but nobody had the producer-spine to cut parts and/or say what needed to be said for the song's sake, perhaps for fear of offending each other. A lot of wack stuff made it to the final mix. I can't imagine that if someone had been thinking in terms of what was best for the track (instead of what was best for everyone's egos) it would have turned out like this.

It's kind of sad to see how almost every time someone in this thread has criticized any aspect of this track, they're met with snark, excuses, and hostility, or even worse, some form of "well it wasn't meant to be good from an objective standpoint so you're looking at it wrong."

It may be ten years old, but this is one of my favourite tunes on the site. I think about it every time I hear the Lava Reef music.

For some reason, the piano laid down in this track reminds me of "Chocolate Rain" by Tay Zonday. But that aside,

The sheer amount of good tasting cheese in this song in impeccable. Really an excellent idea for the track!

Agreed.

I've never commented on this historic mix (for the site at least)? Strange.

I was at this meetup where this song was made, although I wasn't a part of the creation of the song. This is when Andy and Jill first met also, so it was momentous for many of those there.

Listening to it now, the mixing sounds off, with everything sounding overcompressed/crowded. Other issues have been touched earlier so I won't beat on that horse much. As Jill mentioned, it is meant to be a fun song for a group of OCRers who had a fun time - I certainly remember that day fondly, although I was a shy person then.

It still brings warm fuzzies listening to it, although I can understand if others might not grasp it. It's fair game to critique music after all.

Sweet tune. A tad on the short side, but I absolutely love the easy-going mood of the piece. It could've done without the flute, but that's just me. Definetely my favorite part is the guitar solo at 1:28. It's just...I can't even describe it, it's so beautiful.

But eh...D-Lux, your vocal section just didn't work for me. Maybe if it was altered to fit more with the piece, it would've worked better, but it just has a sort of boring tone. It's like if you had Stephen Hawking sing it. No offense to you, I can tell you tried, but I just didn't care for that section.

Still love this source though. It's definetely going onto my iPod.

I'd absolutely love this song if it was simply Jillian.

The composition is great and so is the her voice.

I can even deal with the first guy's voice, but the deep guy's voice just completely clashes with the mood the song places.

i somewhat agree with you. I think they could have mixed or compressed his (the deeper guys) vocals in another manner to make it more fitting; it feels too overriding at least in my opinion. Even considering this i don't mind his part that much and actually enjoy the flow of the lyrics.